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MT760 Help me please
02-12-2011, 10:47 AM
Sir,
I have a question. Help is appreciated. I am trying to do MT760 and block funds in favor of trader. Trader says he wants to block funds on my account. He says it will never leave my account and I can make profits weekly.

I did some research and I found that it is not only "blocking" but also giving trader with line of credit? If I issue MT760 to trader, can he withdraw my asset/line of credit and run off?

Please advise!!!!!!!!

piko123
02-12-2011, 04:19 PM
Hello everyone!

Im a new guy in one company which is mostly tended on real estate development projects, but some kind of investments as well.. I work there as PR and assistant, so I have enough work to do there.. But once they offered me after having meeting with two guys from Nepal who agreed to do the business using the thing I will try to explain as short and understandable as i can.. so after this meeting he said that i can do that business for him as well if i can and want, he told me to find trough my friends or if I have some friends owning some good company, with clear funds and legal business which costs at least few million euros. So I checked and I found two possible candidates for this deal.
The general information I got from my boss is that - we send 100M euro to that company by using SWIFT MT103/23 (bank: HSBC london) which includes the point about possibility of demanding to reinvest 90% of all the money to another account, and must be done in 3 bank working days, so that they undertake that. Before that we need to have from them the proof of fund.
So what he said, that if I'm gonna get someone for that,then I will receive 1% from all. But must be agreed about that between the one i find, so they keep 10% and pay me 1% from all that and send 89% to the account my boss issue for them. He's interest is to save tax difference trough reinvesting money. Thats approximately all what i have from my boss. He is chinese.
The questions are: is it all legal; if it's not a scam; if I find a company which agree to do this (because it's like raising your company's value by 10%, why wouldn't every company want to have that kind of offer?) what should I do, because it is a lot of money, for me it's kind of sounds unreal to earn by one deal 1M euro; any suggestions what to do...

Thank you for answering! And please, if you are using some kind of abbreviations, could you put brief explanation to it, because as I said, I'm the new guy in this and have lack of experience.

Have a nice day
and good vibes,

Miyuki
02-13-2011, 01:44 AM
SWIFT MT103/23 = scam.

Templar
02-13-2011, 03:02 AM
Miyuki is right.

There is no such field in SWIFT 103.

Field 23' was created by scammers to cheat people.

It is a SCAM.

You can report them to the Police.

piko123
02-13-2011, 09:06 AM
So if there would be just that MT103 without any other additional fields?
It just sounds weird to me.. the company is pretty serious in the business with real estate development projects.. have been and seen a lot of those projects already done and going to be done... And I'm speaking about massive projects, including 5* hotels, plenty of residential houses, villas, sport centers etc...worth billions..
where is the catch, if my boss is already doing that money transfers with few clients..and it's working with them..
He is sending his company's money to the another company, which afterwards transfers 90% of all that amount to the third account, which actually is also related to my boss.. So in that way he loose just 10%.. because of straight transfer to he's related account he would pay some kind of tax to Chinas government what would be 45-50% if i'm not wrong..
For me it looks like money laundry.. but would appreciate if someone would try to look at this in big picture and give me some suggestions what to do..

Thanks!

Gentle Giant
02-13-2011, 10:17 AM
SWIFT MT103/23 = scam.
@piko123

He already lied to you once. Why do you want to stick around and see if he doesn't lie as often or as badly? Do you think the deal is going to get better?

De Master Yoda
02-13-2011, 10:21 AM
and give me some suggestions what to do..
Do not go ahead with it and save your money.

As Gentle Giant says, if he is lying to you why give him your money?

Templar who is VERY experienced in these matters says it is a scam.

I would take his word for it.

piko123
02-13-2011, 04:13 PM
Do not go ahead with it and save your money.

As Gentle Giant says, if he is lying to you why give him your money?

Templar who is VERY experienced in these matters says it is a scam.

I would take his word for it.

But he didn't lie me. And I'm not giving him any of my money, he is paying me monthly salary for my work as PR for the company..
He just offered me that as a side dish, if I'm capable to get anyone who owns such a big company would fit him... I just don't want to screw around with my reputation with people I know who would fit for this case and I could make very big and fast money if being lucky...

So I'll put this thing easier - I find a guy, who has billions in his accounts and have a lit off company's in Cyprus.. then I ask him proof of fund..he give me that..then he undertakes the conditions about 72h reinvesting of all the money my boss gonna send to him.. all the paper work is done.. my boss sends his money, using MT103, to that guy..then in 72h/3 bank working day's he asks to transfer 90% of all the amount to another account..
that way he bypass paying 45% of all this money in taxes.. could it be true?

Cheers,
Ricardo.

Templar
02-14-2011, 01:12 AM
What is described is illegal.

No one with billions, does not know that SWIFT MT 103' Field 23, does not exist.

I suggest you speak to the police to protect yourself.

De Master Yoda
02-14-2011, 02:15 AM
could it be true? Yes it is true that it is a scam.

You have the advice of very good experienced people who have no financial interest in the deal. Yet you seem to want to convince yourself it is not a scam?
You need to ask yourself why.

The success of any scam relies on people BELIEVING it. By their very nature scammers and con men are believable.
This does not ease the pain after, when the victim realizes they have been scammed.

Sorry, but once the dream of making a lot of money quickly has gone and you are left with empty pockets or your boss is, what then?

Yes, it would be nice to get a lot of money for doing very little but life is not like that.

You can ride the train wreck until it goes over the cliff or you can make an informed decision and get off the train before the end. It is your choice.

You have been given very good advice, it is up to you whether you accept and use it.

piko123
02-14-2011, 02:07 PM
Thank you De Master Yoda and Templar for suggestions!
Will post later how did it work out with him. Didn't speak with my boss for a while due Chinese New Year holidays, but gonna meet him tomorrow. So then I'll speak with him about the deal he offers..and what you said about that.. will make small confrontation between him and the info you gave to me. I guess it's gonna be fun :)
But still this is my work, where I'm getting the money for living..so will just stick as PR for his company..nothing else and starting from now on i will never sign any papers if he will try to give to me..and i never did..

Really, thank you very much for convincing me into stop believing in that MT103..though it sounded so luring.. of course, it is the human nature to believe in truth's they want to believe in..

So till tomorrow :)

mimpi
04-23-2011, 02:44 PM
right, don't talk you don't know. Please check well first what MT103/23 is. I wonder if the guy commented on MT103 and MT103/23 really knows what they are or to him it is ' what it is'.

Monika
05-24-2011, 01:47 PM
Sir,
I have the same question about MT760 and block funds in favor of trader. Need a help, please. In case I can write or send a draftcontract to check it. It will be so appreciated, if someone can look and tell me if its truth.

I am doing some research and I dont want to be f.....

Please advise!!!!!!!!

vasileios
05-24-2011, 04:51 PM
hello. i write you regarding your funds to be transferred with mt103

i can help you as i have done it again with my bank for 50 million euros.


Kind regasrds

Im a new guy in one company which is mostly tended on real estate development projects, but some kind of investments as well.. I work there as PR and assistant, so I have enough work to do there.. But once they offered me after having meeting with two guys from Nepal who agreed to do the business using the thing I will try to explain as short and understandable as i can.. so after this meeting he said that i can do that business for him as well if i can and want, he told me to find trough my friends or if I have some friends owning some good company, with clear funds and legal business which costs at least few million euros. So I checked and I found two possible candidates for this deal.
The general information I got from my boss is that - we send 100M euro to that company by using SWIFT MT103/23 (bank: HSBC london) which includes the point about possibility of demanding to reinvest 90% of all the money to another account, and must be done in 3 bank working days, so that they undertake that. Before that we need to have from them the proof of fund.
So what he said, that if I'm gonna get someone for that,then I will receive 1% from all. But must be agreed about that between the one i find, so they keep 10% and pay me 1% from all that and send 89% to the account my boss issue for them. He's interest is to save tax difference trough reinvesting money. Thats approximately all what i have from my boss. He is chinese.
The questions are: is it all legal; if it's not a scam; if I find a company which agree to do this (because it's like raising your company's value by 10%, why wouldn't every company want to have that kind of offer?) what should I do, because it is a lot of money, for me it's kind of sounds unreal to earn by one deal 1M euro; any suggestions what to do...

Thank you for answering! And please, if you are using some kind of abbreviations, could you put brief explanati

trimesh
07-01-2011, 05:40 AM
Sir,
I have the same question about MT760 and block funds in favor of trader. Need a help, please. In case I can write or send a draftcontract to check it. It will be so appreciated, if someone can look and tell me if its truth.

I am doing some research and I dont want to be f.....

Please advise!!!!!!!!

An MT760 is a SWIFT message that is used to transmit a demand guarantee or standby L/C - saying that it "blocks funds" on the senders account is true on one level, but describes a side effect, not the purpose of the message.

And there certainly is a potential liability on your part if you issue one of them - the exact nature and extent of the liability will depend on the contents of the narrative field of the message (field 77C) - but since the scammers generally use "payable on first written demand" it's fairly safe to assume that you will end up losing 100% of the amount the guarantee is written for.

In short, anyone that descibes an MT760 as "blocking funds" is either a scammer or badly informed - and in either of these cases you don't really want them to get their hands on your money.

Gulliblephoenix
07-01-2011, 07:17 AM
real trading companies operate differently than the way you did. for some companies they already have investments in place like any Hedge funds. I'd try to find work elsewhere. If this goes down your reputation goes down the drain pipe as well.

Niseag
07-02-2011, 07:23 AM
These issues come up on my desk every week, its almost a given and people believe in it religously, I preach, I shout, I talk serious, nothing helps, they want to lose their money and they always know better.

Frankly I gave up on explaining the scam via Swift

trimesh
07-02-2011, 08:16 AM
These issues come up on my desk every week, its almost a given and people believe in it religously, I preach, I shout, I talk serious, nothing helps, they want to loose their money and they always know better.

Frankly I gave up on explaining the scam via Swift

I think the problem is that the people that are involved in this "business" see many many offers that talk about "MT103/23" - so after a while they start to assume it must exist since the alternative (I.E. that ALL these "offers" are fake) is not something they want to believe.

Even quoting bits out of the SWIFT handbook doesn't seem to help :(


M 20 Sender's Reference 16x
O 13C Time Indication /8c/4!n1!s4!n
M 23B Bank Operation Code 4!c
O 23E Instruction Code 4!c[/30x]
O 26T Transaction Type Code 3!c
<snip>

Field 23B: Bank Operation Code: Mandatory

Must contain one of the following codes:
CRED Credit transfer where there is no SWIFT service level involved
CRTS Credit Transfer for test purposes
SPAY Credit Transfer to be processed according to SWIFTPay Service Level
SPRI Credit Transfer to be processed according to the Priority Service Level
SSTD Credit transfer to be processed according to the Standard Service Level

Field 23E: Instruction Code: Optional

Must contain one of the following codes:
CHQB Pay beneficiary customer only by cheque
CORT Transaction contains a payment that is made in settlement of a trade, eg, foreign exchange deal, securities transaction
HOLD Beneficiary customer/claimant will call; pay upon identification
INTC Transaction contains an intra-company payment, ie, a payment between two companies belonging to the same group
PHOB Please advise/contact beneficiary customer by phone
PHOI Please advise the intermediary institution by phone
PHON Please advise account with institution by phone or beneficiary by phone
REPA Payment has a related e-Payments reference
SDVA Payment must be executed with same day value to the beneficiary
TELB Please advise/contact beneficiary/claimant by the most efficient means of telecommunications
TELE Please advise account with institution by the most efficient means of telecommunications
TELI Please advise the intermediary institution by the most efficient means of telecommunications
So there are two subtypes for field 23 - B and E. Neither of them have anything to do with conditional payments.

Miyuki
07-02-2011, 08:24 AM
You are probably right. joker brokers and scammers have been using MT 103/23 for so long that even people who claim to be real brokers think it exists. I had to explain it to one "investment advisor" and it isn't as if I know a lot about it.

De Master Yoda
07-02-2011, 08:38 AM
Scammers and con men operate by being believable, this, combined with the victims desire to make money makes these types of scams possible.

If I was a scammer I could easily tell you about MS5987 and produce fake documents to back up what is offered, this does NOT make it genuine.

In fact I just made it up, but to someone who is not in the finance profession it may sound impressive and be believed.

The advice you have received from AFI comes from some of the top finance people in the world. We are very lucky to have them.
They are very experienced and trusted members.

Please bear in mind that the advice from AFI is given freely and NO one on AFI makes any money from this advice, in fact many of us put our own money up to help run the site.

The scammers are after one thing=YOUR money, so they will tell any lie, twist any truth and do all they can to convince you they are genuine.

Whether you take the advice we offer is up to you, but when you are out of pocket, then you have lost this money and there is very little we can do to help you get any back.

It will be no good saying " But I thought he was genuine" as he is on his way to the bank to pick up YOUR money before he disappears with it.

The choice is simple, believe a scammer who is out to steal your money or believe our finance guys who are very experienced and have NO financial interest in your dealings at all.

trimesh
07-02-2011, 10:16 AM
You are probably right. joker brokers and scammers have been using MT 103/23 for so long that even people who claim to be real brokers think it exists. I had to explain it to one "investment advisor" and it isn't as if I know a lot about it.

There was even a post on swiftcommunity.net a while ago where someone that was working in a bank wire room was asking how to send a "Conditional MT103" since one of the bank's customers had apparently convinced the branch manager that it existed!

It turned into a discussion about "how can you tell your boss he's an idiot in a polically safe way".

Templar
07-02-2011, 01:24 PM
Saw that bit on the Swift Forum.

:roflmao:

postpay
07-05-2011, 10:37 PM
[@new guy:
i read your question in detail, and before commenting on your question i want to say that this MT 103/23 is not illegal or fraud, regardless what anyone else say about it, even regardless what i say about it, you can search it on internet, i.e. google.com but please see the source of information, it is a legitimate way of transferring money from one bank to another, to back up my my information i spoke to my bankers and very successful financial advisers and even a couple of Vice presidents of two different banks, you can do your own research. (note: all these peoples are my friends and we have long working relations so they cant give me wrong advice) (note: please don't try to find the answers in forums because i think these peoples who have good experience in banking sector They are busy peoples, so they don't visit forums, just look at the website address and if you believe the source is reliable then believe it, for example if a reputable bank )

now about your question and situation, i agree with you that its kind of laundering system, and No your boss is not losing 10% or any of his money, he is actually saving money, it can be scam or fraud if he ask you or any of the clients you bring in, so I THINK you can go on as far as he start asking you or them any money, and when he ask for even a small amount of money you can back off the deal, even tell the clients YOU bring in that if they pay him any money they will do it on there own, i assure you no BUSINESS MAN can go greedy, coz a BUSINESS MAN always look at dark sides of any deal.
whats the catch? or what your boss can do to the companies you bring, its long list of possibilities, and my problem is i don't trust any one with MY MONEY so i don't doubt anyone's intentions as long as my money is involved, you don't have any money to lose!! whats the fear?
My suggestion to you is, go to your banker, i am sure you know at least one banker, ask him for advice, he is bond to protect your money. Good luck!!!

Central Scrutinizer
07-06-2011, 12:42 AM
[i want to say that this MT 103/23 is not illegal or fraud, regardless what anyone else say about it,
So I guess that English is isn't you first language? MT103/23 does not exist. Believe what you want. Facts don't change.

Niseag
07-06-2011, 02:46 AM
here you find the SWIFT mask of the MT103

http://scotiabank.com/images/en/filesservicesoutside/9007.pdf

The subfield 23 does not exist as such it is 23 B, 23 E etc and does not allow conditionals but only codes, given that a conditional transfer can only be done by refering with a code to the Nostro Agreement between specific banks engaged in the communication.

SWIFT messages have only legal meaning within the system, meaning you can not reference something outside SWIFT and still stay within the legal bindings.

Such a SWIFT, who is refering to a conditional position in a Nostro Agreement or any other Non-Swift Arrangement, is considered un-clean and has no legal binding on the basis of the SWIFT, it is considered not written and generally disregarded.

Since the account owner is not part of the Nostro Agreement which would and could provide protection he can not argue conditionality.

Meaning the wire meant to be conditional can not be set up as such, so will either be refused or if done will always be unconditional.

Here is formating of the system for SWIFT: http://www.pkobp.pl/index.php/id=mt103/section=ogol

Read up on SWIFT MT 101 and 103 at http://www.swift.com/solutions/by_customer/corporates/score/SW4CORP_MT_MIGRATIONGUIDE_20090122_v1.0.pdf

Hope that is finally enough to finish this discussion!

If someone wants to do a conditional transfer he needs both banks to engage in a Trust operation for him and than the money will not be credited as available but as blocked.

However that is not SWIFT MT103/23 and expensive and most banks will not do so because it involves a lot of legal and paperwork.

Beside the loss of the money what has not discussed here is the potential of money laundering attacks.


My advise for anyone who is not operating in the institutional account sphere to disregard any talk about MT103/23.

CSAW
07-18-2011, 06:21 PM
Please confirm if following format does exist and work authenitcally.

WE xxx BANK Plc , HEREBY CONFIRM THAT IN RESPONSE TO YOUR REQUEST AND INSTRUCTION WE ARE PREPARED TO RESERVE AND HOLD ON YOUR BEHALF FUNDS IN THE ACCOUNT OF _________________________LIMITED ACCOUNT NUMBER _________ IN THE AMOUNT OF US$ 40 Million (40,000,000/-) FORTY MILLION US$) BEING GOOD, CLEAN, LEGALLY EARNED FUNDS, BENEFICIALLY HELD BY
YOU WITHOUT LIENS OR ENCUMBRANCES.
WE FURTHER CONFIRM IN COMPLIANCE WITH YOUR INSTRUCTIONS AND ON DUE RECEIPT, AUTHENTICATION AND VERIFICATION OF THE SAID INSTRUMENT – BANK GUARANTEE FROM HSBC– VIA SWIFT MT 760.

Niseag
07-19-2011, 03:14 AM
confirmation of fiduciary position and duty for the sender by the bank of the receiver, makes the 103 a non-clean transfer, no applicable SWIFT cover, you would have to sue in the jurisdiction of the confirming bank and can not use the SWIFT clauses. This answer triggers a fee and a liability that is separate from the transaction, meaning it novates, can create all kind of trouble, I always vetoed these in my time as bank counsel, sure can be done but there is a risk of a liability towards the receiver as well because there is a bank to client contract. Different interests!

nano
08-23-2011, 03:52 AM
Hi Piko123 !
Hope you are fine.
Please contact me: (edit and removed) for information.

Looking for soon response,
Best regards,
Nano

Miyuki
08-23-2011, 05:56 AM
@ nano,

Please do not double post and please do NOT post your emails address here. It is not safe to do that.

Niseag
02-17-2012, 05:56 AM
didn't want the codes in the public, but here they are, good that there is more you have not published

edie
11-22-2014, 08:24 AM
Dear brother Templar & seniors,

I do really appreciate & thank God that i found you & other seniors here with noble efforts to correct the misled sincere persons who is trying to feed their family. Such efforts & assistance reflects the Lord's example of true love to other people who REALLY need it.

My only elder brother is a long time friend of the OWNER of investment bank big boy here: DTM Group Fortunately, we're from same ethnicity, make the bond between them tighter.
FYI: this big group can facilitate a transit account (at cleanest top tier bank in Spore) for ANY transactions (minimum Euro 2M) with decent comms. of 1-1.5% & bank charge of around 3-5% depending on the amount transacted.
The owner of DTM group is a good man, not talking much but always pay what he/his family based company should pay even to 'smallest' person, but he hates scammers, and unfortunately my brother have failed him 3 times with few overseas broker jokers in this year...these scammers have possessed DTM bank details, etc., but luckily the VP of the bank in spore had blocked any scam attempts to withdraw very BIG money from DTM account.

My partner has been in spore for 5 days now, the first day he met with arabian 'provider' who suddenly changed the already agreed SWIFT103, into his own method of KTT 103! This scammer told 1001 story as alibi... than he was expelled immediately. Now my partner got another provider but with unclear scheme, so In this occasion, brother Templar, can u please help me once, whether the following is another scam scheme with MT103 :

"WHEREAS: : The Parties understand that Provider’s nominated bank will not send cash funds to Receiver’s bank account.The Parties understand that Financial Instruments via SWIFT MT103 (further designated as the Instruments) is only for credit enhancement. The each Instrument’s SWIFT MT103 will appear on inter-banking screen and there will be no verifications communication with issuing bank.

WHEREAS: ...... The Receiver to use the Instruments as collateral for involving financial resources, raising credit line, and investment in any legal objectives for generating maximal benefit........ The Receiver must have a credit line ready against which Receiver will use the Instrument to pay for this transaction.>......"

WHEREAS: Sender desires to transfer through from issuing bank the aforementioned Instrument to the Receiver’s bank. Sender represents and warrants that it has the ability and resources to arrange through associates, contacts and sources, with full corporate responsibility, Instrument in the term of assignments to be provided to the Receiver’s bank. >>......"

Awaiting your great advice, i do always remain.
So much Thank You for your time & yr help. God bless u & family!

Kat
11-22-2014, 01:49 PM
Did you read the sticky at http://antifraudintl.org/showthread.php?25170?

And please do not post your name here. Thank you.